Bob Rae, on his last day at the UN, says: ‘I think I helped make a difference’ | CBC Radio

When Bob Rae first took up his post as Canada’s ambassador to the United Nations in 2020, much of the world was still in lockdown because of the global pandemic.

That would prove to be just the first of several world-changing events that would unfold during his tenure — including the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Hamas attacks on Israel, and Israel’s subsequent siege and bombardment of Gaza.

All the while, the organization has faced criticism, especially from U.S. President Donald Trump, for its inability to maintain peace.

Rae has his own gripes about the United Nations, but at the end of the day, says he believes in its people and its mission. On his very last day on the job, he spoke to As It Happens host Nil Kӧksal. The following is an excerpt from that conversation.

You’ve packed up a few offices and left different roles. How does this one feel? 

This one has been really very mixed, and my feelings are quite nostalgic for the number of personal friendships and relationships that I’ve established in our mission with the people that I work with in Ottawa, with all of my colleagues and with the officials of the UN. I’ve had a chance to say goodbye to a lot of people, and it’s been tough.

WATCH | Bob Rae’s final UN speech:

FULL SPEECH | Bob Rae makes final remarks as UN ambassador

After five years as Canada’s ambassador to the United Nations, Bob Rae made his final remarks to the General Assembly hall on Thursday as he retires from the diplomatic position. ‘We all have to be contributors to change,’ he said.

The Economist used the phrase “grim future”  to describe what things look like at the UN during a time when Donald Trump is in the White House again. Do you agree with that characterization that there is a grim future ahead for the UN?

I think it’s important to recognize that even in the most difficult of circumstances, the UN, the agencies of the UN, and the people working in the field for the UN are able and willing to do some extraordinary things.

We see this all the time. We see it in Gaza. We see it in Sudan. We see  it on the ground. I think that it’s vastly underestimated by people, the extent to which there are thousands and thousands of people who are doing whatever they can to make the world better and safer, even if all events are pointing in another direction. 

We don’t, frankly, have the luxury of saying, “God, isn’t it awful?” We have the job of trying to make things better. That’s what we do. 

Is there a moment or moments that will stay with you more than others? 

The collapse of Afghanistan, which affected the world and all of us, particularly the Afghan people so terribly. The takeover of the Taliban there. We went immediately into action here in New York. I mean, New York was one of the hubs that really tried to help people, and we did everything we could to help get people out and to respond and make our system work better to help it to respond. 

The night of the Ukraine invasion by Russia was just absolutely sobering [and] dramatic. Again, we tried to mobilize the public opinion in the world against what the Russians had done and were doing and are doing today.

I can remember waking up in the morning with the news of the Hamas attack on October 7th. And my wife and I, Arlene, we were just shaking our heads and saying this is going to be awful. Because the reaction from Israel was what I think many people predicted it would be. 

Those events have, of course, dominated the work that I’ve been doing, and many of the things that I’ve had to deal with. 

I wonder how you, as you leave, compartmentalize those things or try to get them out of your head. Can you? Or do they still keep you up at night? 

No, you can’t. I think you figure out a coping mechanism, but I don’t think you ever get them out of your head. 

One thing that I have had to realize … is that you can’t let the deep tragedy of the situation prevent you from gathering your thoughts and trying to figure out: Well, what can we do? How do we deal with this? 

Do you ever get hardened to do it? Never. Does it affect you emotionally? Absolutely. And I think Canadians who’ve seen me sometimes wiping a tear from my eye or actually having difficulty finishing a sentence will know that it does have an impact. Of course it does.

WATCH | Bob Rae says the UN must change:

What Bob Rae thinks UN critics get right — and wrong

Outgoing Canadian ambassador Bob Rae tells CBC News Chief Correspondent Adrienne Arsenault what critics get right and wrong about the United Nations — and what needs to change to keep the 80-year-old international organization effective today.

Another notable moment you were there for was in September when Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke at the United Nations and criticized countries, including Canada, for recognizing the state of Palestine. And, as you know, dozens of diplomats walked out. You remained seated. Why did you make that decision?

Because I felt that it was important for Canada to be in the room, and I felt it was for us to listen to what he was saying. I disagreed strongly with much of what he said, but I thought that to simply join a walkout was not where Canada should be. 

I have actually made a point at the UN of sitting and listening to a lot of speeches. At the very beginning, I made a point of listening to … President [Mahmoud] Abbas of the Palestinian Authority and Prime Minister Netanyahu, who both spoke. And I made a point of just saying: I’m going to sit here and listen and take notes and really try to figure out the language and the arguments that they’re making, and how this can move in a different direction. And I continue to believe that’s something that has to be done. 

WATCH | Netanyahu UN speech spurs walkout:

Netanyahu calls move to recognize Palestine ‘disgraceful,’ after dozens walk out on his UN speech

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told fellow world leaders at the UN that his country ‘must finish the job’ against Hamas in Gaza and called recognition of the state of Palestine a ‘disgraceful decision.’ He spoke after dozens of delegates from multiple nations walked out of the UN hall en masse.

In diplomacy, there are many things that are difficult about it, I’m sure. But for someone who has earned … the nickname “Hurricane Bob,” what was that like?

I think one has to appreciate the fact that there are still voices out there in the world, far too many, who believe that Israel doesn’t have a right to exist as a country in the Middle East. And that is not my position. It’s not Canada’s position. 

I have done everything I can to encourage the government of Canada to move to the recognition of the state of Palestine. And many in the Jewish community objected strongly to that and said, “How can you do that after what happened on October 7th?” 

I said, look, there’s no way we’re going to be able to resolve the conflict in the Middle East until we recognize the fundamental point that there is a dignity of difference, and that the difference of Palestine has to be recognized with dignity, and the difference of Israel has to be recognized with dignity. And I think that’s a position that I have been proud to maintain, even though, frankly, I received tons of hate mail and all kinds of other forms of communication. 

We have to find ways of reaching  accommodation between two countries that need to live together in peace and dignity. We’re a long way from that. But we have to work to try to get there. 

Of all the roles and jobs you’ve had, what did this one teach you about yourself, Ambassador? 

It’s been the kind of culmination or maybe the closing of a circle. As you know, my dad had this job 50 years ago, and it took a lot out of him at a difficult time in the life of the world. 

I learned I’m actually a better listener than I think some people think that I am. I learned how to get along with a lot of people. And I think I helped make a difference.